Knuckles and all; FILDI fully charged. On my way to the NIC.

While this blog is way for me to explore and dissect my findings within the science of Nonverbal Communication (NVC) in regards to my work in the justice system, my work with autistic college students and getting a basic, better, understanding of interpersonal relationships thus named The Science of Gesture¹ I find myself more concerned recently with the gestures of, within, and the, very, verbal communication of American Sign Language (ASL).

Some people have a quick difficulty with the idea that ASL is in fact a verbal language however it’s easy to see that, definitionally, it very well is. William Vicars, Ed. D in his 2001 essay, “ASL Linguistics: Nonlinguistic Communication” states:

“The term ‘verbal’ has two common meanings: using words, and spoken. If I say that someone is using nonverbal communication, does that mean he is communicating without words? Or does that mean he is communicating without speaking. Popular usage tends to interpret the term “nonverbal communication as meaning communicating silently without words.” American Sign Language is nonverbal in the sense that it is gesturally produced. But it is certainly “verbal” in the sense that it uses words, or rather signs. Words are the lexemes of spoken languages. Signs are the lexemes of signed languages.”

Recently my studies have been entirely focused on the Registry of Interpreters of the Deaf‘s (RID) National Interpreter Certification (NIC) exam, specifically the Interview and Performance exam; and when I study, I obsess…

…maybe obsess is to mitigated of a word…

…and honestly, I’m not sure how I ever survived without a chalkboard wall in the first place.

Keeping in the vain of the masthead of the Grand Midway Hotel’s library; I am going to spend my time with the Science of Gesture to teaching what I wish to learn and utilize this blog from here on for each of those individual squares on the wall above.

I do hope that this will not only help me study and further learn the material to the depth needed but also that I will find some other interpreters to engage in discussion with regarding the material.

I’ll leave off this post with Ze Frank‘s Invocation for Beginnings as it is, by far, the best way to start any journey I am afraid of embarking upon…

Knuckles and all, let’s start this shit up.

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¹ I must thank my friend Gavin St. John for the title. One night I'd received a text from him that said, "maybe it's the whiskey talking but I think you are this generation's Sherlock Holmes. Also your blog, "Exploring Nonverbal Communication Further," should definitely be renamed to, "The Science of Gesture." 

I want to forget how to face…

Jason,

“I need advice. I don’t want to give myself away through my microexpressions. And I have several. More than most. How do I be more… stoic? Similar to [our stoic friend]? I’ve [learned to control my emotions, I stay away from drugs], I’ve done all of that except tried logic. Do you know of any books on [our friend’s] shelf, or should I library? And honestly, I think there is something wrong with me on a professional level only, I can get emotional about work, and it’s been hard to hide lately. It’s causing slight stress but more of a disturbance in my flow, and my effectiveness.”
– [Left to be unnamed.]

I have neither attempted to, nor come across a means to, or desire to, stifle microexpressions. As far as I’ve always understood; a microexpression occurs on account of having to attempt to conceal an emotion in the first place. In other words, a microexpression is a form of a “tell,” as they call them in the poker world. They, microexpressions, occur because the personality, perhaps the id, requires truthful information to be conveyed. If I were to, say, lie about something and I was a person that was apt to convey microexpressions; then a microexpression (a full blown facial expression) would flash upon my face in, approximately, 1/10 of a second.

(And the timing, of 1/10 of a second, is no guesswork. When I decided to study microexpressions, I asked friends to lie to me while I filmed them. One friend specifically was, as I knew, disgusted by, and abhorred, cigarettes. I asked her to convince me, on film, that she loved them. When I’d spot a microexpression I would cut that single second out and put it into my computer. The second of footage was able to be broken down into 30 frames. A microexpression of theirs lasted for 3 out of the 30 frames. 1 frame was the initial onset, the 2nd frame was a full blown expression, the 3rd frame was the offset of the emotion. 3/30 frames, in other words; 1/10 of a second. And the expression was full on disgust. To be technical it had a Facial Action Coding Score (FACS) with the Action Units (AUs), 9 (the levator labii superioris alaeque nasi), 15 (the depressor anguli oris) and 16 (the depressor labii inferioris) Amazing! Full blown disgust in one 10th of a second! It’s staggering. Back to the point… I agree…)

I’ve been spending a few days now trying to think of a way to conceal something that manifests as a result of concealment and what I have come up with is that, simply, you don’t.

On the one hand, the more prominent one in this metaphor, there are, theoretically, one is my theoretical and the other is, so to speak, Ekmanomical… Paul Ekman, the one who is widely credited as discovering and working with microexpressions (though technically it was E.A. Haggard and K.S. Isaacs in 1996 who called it “Micromomentary.“) has developed a training tool to learn how to spot microexpressions. (I have taken all of the courses and each are worth it.)

The point is, if it is something that people need to practice at or take a training on; the chances of someone who is of the, for lack of better terms, average individual having taken such a course is, likely, pretty minimal and they will miss them (microexpressions) when they occur.

Remember, we’re talking about 1/10 of a second here!

On the next hand we have those pesky little buggers called mirror neurons. And these are a problem, why? In this case they are anyway… Mirror neurons are what promote and manifest empathy. When I yawn, you yawn– mirror neuron. When you frown, I grow saddened– mirror neuron. When you show anger, I become afraid– mirror neuron. And they exist for a beautiful evolutionary reason. Mirror neurons are where empathy comes from, how we can feel sympathy. So, if a person exhibits a mircroexpression then it is quite reasonable to expect that, since the brain notices more information than we can possibly imagine, the person who sees a microexpression will have a mirror neuron effect from the cause of you making such a grumpy face.

It’s a pickle. No doubt.

(Not to mention the growing probability that thoughts and feelings may be less private than we think or that we are cluttering the noosphere with all the muck and entrails of what we think and feel. Enough hippy side tracking… Back on point…)

Now that we have a bit of an understanding as to what and why a microexpression is… Let’s consider their control. It is reasonable to suggest that you will have to, instead, learn to control your emotions and not your microexpressions at all. Honesty is, as I always say, the best route. Once a friend said to me, “lying–it is something that you can do to all people or no people; your choice.” And, quite frankly, I agree.

Now, sadly, if you attempt to conceal microexpressions there is, then, a good possibility that you will be given away based on three principles–

1. A Simulated Expression is when a microexpression is not concomitant with a natural expression which will lend suspicion to your conversationalist pal.
2. A Neutralized Expression occurs when the one emoting attempts to neutralize an emotion (quite like you are doing) and, consequentially, no emotions, where one should, appears causing a non-microexpression-microexpression…
3. A  Masked Expression is when the microexpression truly rears its head; that is when you attempt to mask a natural expression then another expression can, and most likely will, give you away.

In other words; you will most likely be fully incapable of repressing your microexpressions and if you do/try you will only lead to more. Not to mention the amount of damage it will do on your psyche. On the path where you are heading I would beg to ask the question, “if you would not do this job for free, then why are you doing it?” Instead is it time to change professions?

If, however, this is a necessary job for the time being I would work on practicing keeping your “cultural emblems, subject manipulators and object manipulators,” at a minimum. These are things that really do cause an affective effect in the person who views them. And these are things that people don’t even need to study in order to spot…

Pesky mirror-neurons…

I hope that answers your question and I hope that I can convince you to watch a video before you leave. The video is a Ted.com lecture by a woman named Brene’ Brown. She talks about allowing yourself to be vulnerable to your emotions and compassionate towards yourself to a point where things like you are trying to do–are no longer relevant. She explains a simple method to trusting yourself and others with whatever emotion is given or received… And furthermore she talks about the power one receives by becoming, of all things, as vulnerable as one possibly can become.

I hope this helps…

If not, you can always hit up a Byron Katie, “Judge Your Neighbor Worksheet.”

Baselining…

Recently a friend had posted this image on Facebook tagging me with the caption, “where do I go from here?”

Where is the best place to start when beginning to study the science of nonverbal communication?

This past week I was consulting on the Commonwealth Vs. Howard case for attorney Lawrence Fisher when it occurred to me that one thing about nonverbal communication, specifically regarding deception detection, that is often either never mentioned or is forgotten about all together in conversation is, quite accurately, the most important aspect all of all.

The concept is that of establishing a baseline. Now why is this important and why is it so often forgotten or glossed over?

Firstly, I feel it is rarely mentioned because it is, for lack of a better term, boring. Secondly, it is likely rarely mentioned because pop culture lie detection has rarely, if ever, made use of it and pop-lie-detection is, unfortunately, most commonly what is believed to be what the science is.

In the, severely exaggerated, show “Lie to Me,” I think the main character only ever once referred to the concept by saying that another character wouldn’t let him get a “read on him” by answering all of his questions with only lies and consequently providing a false baseline. 

—

After I had sat through the entirety of the trial I went to lunch with Fisher to discuss my evaluations. I pointed out how enthused I was that, when a witness is called to the stand, lawyers establish a baseline of an individual’s communication prior to, so to speak, drilling them.

The witness takes the stand and is asked his name, to spell it, to state his relationship to the case, where he is from etc. All of this allowed me ample time to see just how his body conveys information nonverbally while he is following a train of thought that he believes to be true; and since we have the actual information in front of us – we have control questions with verified answers so that we can be certain of this baseline.

As it turns out – these questions are asked simply for the record. They are asked for the purposes of documentation.

At this point in the conversation I was able then to explain that during the witness’s baseline he does a consistent set of A B and C behaviors with his body and these variables were severely absent or interrupted when he discussed X Y and Z.

When the witness stated, and spelled, his name, his address, his relation to the case etc. He sat calmly with his hands folded, his shoulders slightly hunched. His head nodded up and down slightly when approaching or speaking into the microphone. These behaviors did not change while he recounted the details of the case as he understood them to this point. These behaviors are this witness’s baseline behaviors of nonverbal communication in brief. The longer one pays attention to the answers of control questions the more accurately can one know the baseline of another person.

After establishing this baseline we then can see emotional hot-spots when the person speaking. We see these emotional hotspots when the person speaking executes either what Ekman labels as subject/object-manipulators or what Egolf labels a self/objects-adaptors. Whichever term you prefer their meaning is the same.

A self-adaptor/manipulator is a hand-to-body gesture and an object-adaptor/manipulator is a gesture of hand-to-objects in the immediate environment.

In either case a manipulator indicates emotional interruption;  the narration that one is delivering is thrown, surprisingly,  off of its own tracks and is momentarily derailed – revealing that the subject matter is more in depth than we are realizing if we only listen to the words spoken and not to the body language spoken.

Back to the witness on the stand; when he was asked a specific question regarding knowledge of what was located in an empty lot near his house he leaned towards the microphone, placing one hand on top of the other hand where he began to wring his hands and nodded up and down as he said, “no, I didn’t know if there was anything there.” What was noticeable and needed to be understood were two important details that indicated his narration was being interrupted emotionally; first was the wringing hand gesture which trial lawyer Maria Katrina Karos succinctly explained as something people do when they, “are very uncomfortable with a question, topic, or situation.” Second was the contradicting head nod (up and down to indicate yes) while he was saying the words, “no, I didn’t know…”  The hand wringing was a subject-manipulator and the contradictory nod was leakage. And the body always leaks when it is ignored.

(It was later revealed that he did, in fact, know that that’s where his bag of marijuana had been tossed during the scuffle he was in.)

Accordingly, it was when his nonverbals broke away from his patterned baseline that his lie was exposed; and it was exposed because an emotional interruption of fear (of not succeeded in his lie most likely) caused his baseline behavior to alter.

—

I don’t really have any interest at all in discussing deception detection on this blog, I feel that it is too easily persuaded by confirmation bias and used, ignorantly, for, all too often, manipulative purposes.

However, I want to quickly discuss why baselining is so important and why it is the first thing that a student of nonverbal communication should learn…

If one can formulate a pattern of nonverbal behaviors from a person with whom they are in relations then when the nonverbals stray or differ in anyway from the pre-established pattern we know that that is a, so to speak, hot spot worth exploring.

The applications outside of deception detection are many and much more important –

• Parents can establish the baseline nonverbal behaviors of their children and if they child is struggling with some form of emotional turmoil they can begin to empathetically approach them in order to help them therapeutically solve their situations. Naturally, in this case, ask questions instead of making statements.
• Teachers too can have a better understanding of when something is negatively or harmfully impacting their students and can, as a result of this knowledge, approach them with, again, empathy in order to help them assuage their difficulty.
• Partners can, upon establishing each other’s baselines, have better accessibility to knowing the emotional needs of each other.
• Any plenty more. Can you think of any?

In each of the above examples it is always necessary to keep both Othello’s Error and Confirmation Bias in mind.

Approach objectively, neutrally and never manipulatively.

Clumping…

I began to make a post for today regarding being able to determine who wants to leave a situation by noticing the way in which their feet were pointed and placed and considered it, without the knowledge of this post, quite a feat to be understood and so I decided I should, first, take a step back and further explain the concept of clumping in nonverbal communication.

While this blog is primarily a reference tool for those who experience difficulty in social situations where they cannot maintain focus on the face of their interlocutor, my students must know that in regards to nonverbal communication it is absolutely essentially to read gestures in clumps and not in singularities.

A clump is just as the word sounds; it is all of the nonverbal gestures that a person is making while they are expressing themselves. I touched briefly on this in a previous post regarding the feet but now I want to move higher up the leg to explain that while one may tell certain intentions from the foot it is crucial to note also what other parts of the body are doing.

(As watching stationary body parts often inconclusively explanatory in this science I’ve been wanting to experiment with and utilize the animated gif for this blog. Bear with me, this is my first attempt at making and using this image format.)

I was sitting outside of a local coffee shop this past week and saw that something was about to occur that I was aware would be acceptable for me to film and utilize for this blog. Firstly I will work with the animated gifs and then explain what had actually been occurring in that moment.

Consider the feet, with the blue jeaned legs, in the following images.

There are very few, if any, things that we can say for certain having meaning in this gif. There a some general things that can be said to have meaning though. Firstly, he is engaged in some form of group activity. Secondly, as evidenced by, when at the end, his feet land pointing at the men standing to each side of him, he has some form of intention towards them.

The problem, now, is we cannot take it much further than that without having more nonverbals with which to work. In other words, we need more nonverbals to clump in with what his feet are doing so as to understand precisely what his interaction markers (what stage of the interaction he is in), regulators (what is controlling the flow of the interaction) and intention cues (where his intent is in the moment) are.

So let us move up the leg to his hips to show how sine qua non clumping is when reading nonverbals.

Now there is much more information from which to infer what this man’s nonverbals are indicating.

Consider what Givens, in the Nonverbal Dictionary of Gestures, Signs and Body Language Clues, has to say about what Hands-on-Hips indicates; “hands-on-hips shows that the body is prepared to ‘take steps’ [and that] the outward-bowed elbows […] widen, expand, and visually ‘enlarge’ the upper body, making it look more powerful in size.“

It is noticeable, now, that this man is a police officer. What isn’t noticeable is that he is engaged in making an arrest of a man who had violated his parole.

As he stands with his hip cocked, “prepared to take steps,” and his left hand is on his left hip, his left elbow jutted out to, “enlarge the upper body,” and in his right hand – a set of handcuffs. His feet are pointed at the criminal who is in the middle of this group of police officers.

While the animated gif does not contain any sound you can notice that, at a specific point, he turns, places his hand in his pocket, turns back and widens his stance to point his feet directly at the officers with whom he was working.

In the coffee shop that day, directly before he turned and placed his hand in his pocket you could hear the most important sound of all – the clicking ratcheting noise of the handcuffs… This man no longer need the posture he was holding; his intent was directly clear and the reason for his posture was resolved and so he immediately took on another posture – one that reflected no longer needing this focus on the criminal but rather one that reflected focus on his partners in that moment.

This is a basic, albeit somewhat intense, example of why clumping nonverbals together to understand their meaning is required when making an inference from body language.

The feet, the hand on hip, the posture, the sound of the handcuffs, whom he was facing, when and why all factor directly into the entirety of the meaning of the situation.

And so while we may be able to infer certain things just from looking at the feet we must also know that the feet are not the sole provider of the intention cue. Neither the hand, the face, the shoulder, the shirt nor head movement alone can ever convey what needs be conveyed in a broader, more holistic, manner of nonverbal communication.

It starts with the feet…

We, the standing primate of bipedal locomotion, could walk sidling like a crab, like an Egyptian or as if we’ve attended the Ministry of Silly Walks…

…and the fact will still remain: the direction in which the feet point is an expression of direction, an expression of goal. It is an expression of intent. 

In this post I am going to address some general topics regarding the nonverbal communication of the feet so as to set the foundation for following posts regarding more specific material regarding this.

The feet speak:

“There is where I want to be.”

It began in the trees some 4-6 million years ago when our hominid ancestors evolved into that missing link ancestor and required the use of their hands more for transporting objects than for aiding their quadrupedalism and so began to walk upright. The fingers were liberated to carry; they were free to evolve their tactile abilities and their sensitivity while the feet evolved a very different purpose. 

Givens succinctly labels the feet as “smart-parts” used for, “standing, walking, dance and display,” and they, “reveal dominance and submission by toeing out or toeing in, respectively. Inadvertently [pointing toward or angling away] from liked or disliked individuals.”

Nonverbal communication always must be evaluated in context and clumps of gestures and not on any single body part alone. If, for example, we were to rely on a single body part to represent the intent or feelings of an individual it would be an erroneous evaluation; dragging the index finger across one’s nostrils likely implies allergies, a cold or an itch. However, if one drags the index finger across one’s nostril, steps backward and crosses their arms – then there is a cause for further exploration into the context of the conversation in that moment. 

The feet are not an exception. If one were to, while standing, press a toe into the ground and lift their heal they may have a sore ankle. Whereas if a person does this gesture while in the middle of courtship behavior it can be labeled as what Joe Navarro calls “gravity-defying behaviors.” 

“Whenever we are excited about something or feel very positive about our circumstances, we tend to defy gravity by doing such things as rocking up and down on the balls of our feet, or walking with a bit of  a bounce in our step […] Recently I was watching a stranger talk on his cell phone. As he listened his left foot, which had been resting flat on the ground, changed position. The heel of the foot remained on the ground, but the rest of the shoe moved up so that his toes were pointed skyward…

…sure enough, as I walked by I could hear him say, ‘really–that’s terrific!’ His feet had already silently said the same thing.” (Navarro, 2008, p. 63-64)

This image, by Macduff Everton, is also a perfect example of this gravity-defying behavior. The woman, in an obvious display of courting behavior, lifts one foot from the ground and touches her toe down while leaning against the wall; she is happy to be where she is. “Interestingly,” Navarro notes, “gravity-defying behaviors of the feet and legs are rarely seen in people suffering from clinical depression. The body reflects precisely the emotional state of the individual” (p. 65).

(There is also the consideration of not only what our feet do but also what our feet wear. This, however, will be considered in a later post. If you do take an interest in this I recommend what Givens has to elaborate on the matter here.)

Nonverbal communication, being the umbrella term that it is, has several sub-categories whose importance is high regarding the subject matter of this post. I will introduce the terms followed by subsequent posts regarding explanations and meanings of each. The terms are interaction markers, regulators, intention cues, and, to a lesser extent, diectic movements and illustrators. 

Interaction markers are, precisely as the name implies, nonverbals that indicate what stage of an interaction you are in. They indicate which (and this is important) one of the 3 stages of an encounter you are currently in, “(1) the greeting ceremony, (2) the heart of the encounter or discussion or (3) the farewell ceremony.”  Interaction markers are, arguably, one of the more important nonverbals for someone with ASD to look for; since they indicate the stage of the interaction you are currently experiences then very few social norms are left to be confused or anxious about. (Egolf, Donald The Non-Verbal Factor p.168).

Regulators are nonverbals that regulate the interaction you are having. These differ from interaction markers in that they lead into or follow from the 3 stages of interaction. For example, meeting eyes with a friend, standing, walking towards them and extending your hand to grasp their in the shake are regulators as they indicate that the greeting ceremony that is the two of you shaking hands and saying hello is about to begin. When you are shaking hands is when you are in the greeting ceremony which is an interaction marker. 

Diectics are nonverbals that point to an object, place or event and are rarely seen in the feet. If, however, a person is seated and giving you directions it wouldn’t be out of the question to see one of their feet point in the directions they are giving to you.

Illustrators are any nonverbals that indicate that a person is, simply, following a train of thought while they are speaking and so, accordingly, it would be easy to see the role the feet would play in this. Specifically, Ekman states, “illustrators are used to help explain ideas that are hard to put into words” (Telling Lies p. 106).”

Intention cues are nonverbals that indicate what we intend to do and not what we are doing. Picture any person, in any situation requiring walking, and thing of their feet. The backside of the foot is pointed towards the location from which we came and the frontside of the foot is pointed towards the location we are intent on arriving at. The feet, of an averagely developed leg, point straight out from the body. The foot is telling the observer, “that is what I am interested in,” regardless of it being a destination or a person with whom one is talking to. In the event, however, that feet are not pointed at the person with whom one is speaking – it is possible to say their interest lays elsewhere. For example, if you look down and see the feet of your conversation partner and one foot is pointed directly at you and the other is pointed directly at the door – this is regulator telling you that the farewell ceremony is about to begin. 

READING & SEEING NONVERBAL COMMUNICATION FOR INDIVIDUALS INCAPABLE OF EYE-CONTACT

Firstly, it is important to note that, my research in this area can, by no means, be considered complete. What I am attempting to do is compile a resource guide specifically for the students for whom I consult in the matter of having a better comprehension of social cues and nonverbal communication in their conversational counterparts. That being said, I am no expert. Nor do I have any formal education in this subject; and like Sherlock Holmes in the science of deductive reasoning, I taught me everything I know.

Nevertheless…

Tuesday nights, through Heather Conroy Consulting,  I co-teach a social skills class for students on the autism spectrum; recently one of my students had pointed out that he has, like many others with ASD, difficulty making, let alone maintaining, eye contact and, consequentially, wasn’t capable of recognizing the social cues that other people recognize.

Nonverbal communication is a holistic experience that is not, as he seems to understand as truth, limited to the face and so, accordingly, I began to construct an annotated bibliography for my student. When my sources and materials began to climb in stacked books and scribble notes – I knew that this information was relevant beyond the use of a single college senior.

I talked with a few individuals whom I have noticed having difficulty with eye contact and realized the very simple truth – we are animals – and in the animal kingdom eye contact is a signal that says,

“I am dominant. I am intimidating.”

If, then, one cannot make eye contact easily, if at all, because of a social anxiety, autism, OCD, insecurity etc. while also wishing they could read social cues and non verbal communication efficiently – what are they to do?

What this student had said is very important as it is commonly accepted as true; most nonverbal communication takes place in the face when, in fact, this isn’t the case at all.

—

First let’s look at defining what popular culture awkwardly believes is the only reason for this field of science: lying. Considering that a lie is concealing what the actual intent of the deceiver is then, “leakage,” when efferent* on a non-concealed, so to speak, honest level is, only, non-verbal communication in its core sense; the body reveals what the personality is feeling. Moreover the body reveals intent.

This seems a backwards approach, true, however consider the order in which Paul Ekman states that lies are best detected begins – with the feet first, followed by the legs, the hips, the hands, the arms and, lastly, the face. Furthermore, the research that suggests that the liar, since he is well enough aware that their face is being actively watched, resorts to concealing their truth via facial manipulations and control. Ekman suggests this results in the consequence of the most leakage from the waist down. And the reason is simple, “the body leaks because it is ignored” (Ekman Telling Lies p. 85).

And this makes sense; in his book The Nonverbal Factor Donald Egolf states, “the face reveals the emotions and the body will communicate the intensity of the emotion felt.”  Consider this quote coupled with the leakage that Ekman looks for in the order he looks for it and think of this leakage as honesty on the non-concealed and honest level – just non-verbal communication.

In his book Manwatching Desmond Morris paraphrases the reason for this perfectly:

“During ordinary social intercourse, when sitting talking to one another, it is the lower parts of our body that seem to escape the net of deliberate control most easily. The main reason for this appears to be that our attentions are face-focused. Even when we can see the whole body of a companion, we still focus our concentration on to his head region. The further away some other part of the body is from his face, the less importance we give it. The feet are as far away as you can get, and so there is little pressure on him to exert deliberate control on his foot actions. They therefore provide valuable clues as to his true mood (p.113).”

The body will communicate not only the intensity of the emotion felt but also, as it is obviously inseparable from the personality and the face, the emotion itself.

The body will communicate the emotion felt.

Non verbal communication and social cues can easily and efficiently be gleaned from our conversational counterpart without ever fearing having to look them in the eye. Understanding this is a concern of many people I am going to make an attempt to create an easily accessible resource for not only my students but also anyone who needs help in this area.

And so…

 

 

It starts with the feet.

—

* In this post and the following 4 posts, each dealing with a specific region of the body below the neck, I will often utilize the distinction between what David B. Givens calls, afferent cues: incoming signals (those we perceive) and efferent cues: outgoing signals (those we give off).